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Nothing here is to be taken as medical advice. Dr. Dave is sharing his personal story with you. Please contact your healthcare professional to find out if this is right for you.
Here is the transcript to today’s episode:
Speaker 1: (00:00)
Anyway, Tennyson, thanks. Thanks so much for being with me here. This is, this is, I feel honored to have you here talking to you. How are you today?
Speaker 2: (00:09)
I’m doing really good. Thank you. And I so appreciate your invitation. I, uh, for the last six months or so have kind of been in hermit mode, so it feels really good to come out and be able to talk about everything, especially in relation to what I’m doing. Um, and I assume, you know, some of the subjects we’ll get into today. So feeling good. I’m, I’m walking. It’s sunny. Uh, couldn’t be a better situation, really.
Speaker 1: (00:38)
So it, it was, it was really cool meeting you, like the way we did the other day, a couple weekends ago. It was super cool. And I remember you, um, your story is like, if I may say amazing, it was, uh, wait, you’re, you’re, you’re at a park right now. Where are you?
Speaker 2: (00:55)
So, I’m at, I’m actually at the park across the street from Liberty.
Speaker 1: (01:00)
Speaker 2: (01:01)
I, I realized I might get a little winded, if I tried to talk and walk at the same time. So
Speaker 1: (01:09)
Wait a minute. Wait, you’re, you’re at the park across the street from Liberty Park, kind of right? Where, yeah. Wait, where do you, where do you live exactly? Hold on.
Speaker 2: (01:18)
So here’s 900 East, I think. Okay. Or eight eight East. Um, so I’m on like eight 50 east, just a block that way. Um, in between eighth and ninth course,
Speaker 1: (01:30)
Tenon, tenon, I’m, I’m right around the corner from you. We could have done this, we could have done this live. You could have come to my house. Oh my, I can’t how close we are. I knew we live, I knew we both live in Salt Lake City, but we are literally like blocks away from each other as we speak right now. I could probably look out my window and wave to you
Speaker 2: (01:48)
. So, you know, you know Harrison Avenue then, right? That’s, that’s the street I’m on . Exactly. Oh my God.
Speaker 1: (01:55)
Okay. So when I was talking to you the other day, you, I came to, you had a little stand going and I was amazed cause I saw something about mushrooms and you, it seems like you own a mushroom company to say it, like probably the easiest, the simplest possible way, but, um mm-hmm. , I want to hear a little bit about that. And I want to hear about your story, cuz I know you’ve got, I know you’ve got a story that got you to where you are now, and I want, I want to hear about that.
Speaker 2: (02:23)
Okay. Yeah. So the company’s name is actually, so magic Mou MOU is Chinese for mushroom. So, uh, there’s a little bit of an attempt to incept into the mainstream, the idea of magic mushrooms. And of course that extends far beyond psilocybin, though I’m also, um, a huge proponent of psilocybin being something that is, uh, loved and respected and honored and not seem to be any different from anything else that people commonly use to enhance their wellbeing and ability to enjoy life. And so, of course, that’s also a big piece of my story. Um, I, I would say almost 6, 5, 6 years ago now, I, um, was in the, the dark depths of depression. I had been diagnosed with severe depression and ptsd. Um, and it had really been something that kind of snuck under the surface as this undercurrent that I can very clearly see now painted most of my life.
Speaker 2: (03:42)
And in a funny way, the lack of awareness of it, um, both made life easier in that I didn’t identify with this idea of being a certain way. But because there was also this underlying condition that I wasn’t dealing with, um, it, it still dragged me down. And the way the, uh, therapist I worked with briefly described it, which resonated with me, was that I was drowning. Um, and yet no one else could see that or understand how it was happening to me because we were both there together. And for some reason I was suffocating on myself. So, um, then it got worse and better when I was diagnosed because then I identified with my idea of what it meant to have those things going on. And for whatever reason, I, um, had dramatic reactions to professional treatment in the sense that I didn’t trust that they could work. And I, uh, I stopped taking the medication I was given after about a week. I never ended up going to my therapy sessions, um, after the initial diagnosis. Um, and I kind of just walled in it for about a year.
Speaker 1: (05:09)
Before you get into like, kind of like the next part, I, I wanna know because, um, your, your story sounds very, very similar to mine. I’m just a little bit older than you, but probably sounds really, really familiar. But, um, I wanna know from you, um, tell me a little bit about your depression and, and also if you’re able to talk about your ptsd, like, I’d, I’d like to know like where it came from or where you feel it came from, like a little bit more about the background with that before we move on.
Speaker 2: (05:37)
Okay. Yeah. Um, it, you know, it, it, it’s almost tough to say because I recognize that a large portion of it was inherited. Um, there’s so much that we are now learning, especially in the last five years about epigenetic memory and the, uh, you know, the personality traits that we inherit, um, from our ancestry. And we can identify it going back as much as seven generations. And I believe it goes back much further. Um, and, you know, much of those personality traits are trauma based. And so I think a lot of it actually was rooted in that they were, it was almost like a, uh, I had the potential to express all of these traumatic, uh, conditioning traits that exist in my family line, which you could also call are a history of mental illness and a history of X, y, Z. So there was that, and then I had this unbelievably charmed childhood, um, until I was about 22, um, which was maybe slightly thrown off with this, um, impending sense of, this is too easy, this is too good, something’s gotta happen.
Speaker 2: (06:58)
Um, and then it did, oh, there’s a dog walking over. Um, which was, um, I, I won’t go into detail, but basically I went from this very charmed position. Um, I had a very secure religious worldview. Um, and I felt very confident in it because of the people that I depended on to, uh, kind of outsource that sense of competence to really, and so there was this moment when everything, because of certain events that had happened and really coincided with my own beginning to investigate life from a more authentic perspective that kind of caused that old worldview to, um, fall apart. Uh, I guess for a little more context it was the, the Mormon worldview. And so, um, I had discarded that. And then within a month of that happening, um, some certain events happened in my family and, uh, we kind of lost everything really, to put it bluntly. And so you
Speaker 1: (08:03)
Mean when you, when you say you lost everything, do you, are you saying that your, you and your family lost whatever you had income,
Speaker 2: (08:11)
Money, that thing? Yeah. Bankruptcy. Oh, I, I dropped outta school. Um, yeah, there, my parents separated, uh, and there were, there were a variety of different, you could say, uh, what in my experience felt like certain types of betrayals that were, um, pretty, uh, heavy. And so it all just happened at once. It, it almost felt like this, you know, it was that thing of that sense of impending zoom and bam, there all was where any misfortune I could have had in my childhood, it all seemed to happen within a span of a couple of months. And so, so with that triggered all of my unhealthy coping tendencies. And, um, and so it was this kind of three year period where I just, I didn’t know how to deal with life outside of the framework I had been given and was a very soft, uh, framework, and I, I didn’t have to depend on myself much. Um, and so it was just, it was just tough. I had to do a lot of growing up, um, very quickly. And I didn’t have the support network that I had sort of integrated into my entire life, which was the, you know, kind of local religious Utah community. Um, and so, uh, that, that’s the background that, uh, sort of prelude this, um, PTSD and depression.
Speaker 1: (09:49)
Okay. Well thanks for sharing. Cause I know sometimes that’s things like that are difficult to share. And, um, I, I appreciate you sharing even that much.
Speaker 2: (09:57)
So everything, it was cool. Everything sort of just had a, just as quick of a transition out of those depths. Um, the first time I tried a hallucinogen, which was lsd, and then a few weeks later, magic mushrooms. Um, and it was so cool because the LSD experience, um, it was, there was nothing crazy that happened or, you know, not, not, um, an intense hallucination experience, but I saw very clearly and, and literally that everything was connected. Um, I could see the seamlessness of it visually, and it, and could feel it in my sense of meaning or intuition or it just, I just knew, right? And then as I came out of the, uh, trip, the first thought that came to my mind was, I’m not depressed. That’s something that was doing. I don’t have ptsd. Um, that’s something I was doing, and now I can do whatever I want because, and I now recognize it’s because I had enough, been able to disassociate from those identities and be exposed to another possibility that was totally undeniable of what I could do, where I could go the way life was, that my sense of support, um, sort of blossomed inside of me, you could say.
Speaker 2: (11:26)
And so I didn’t have to outsource it. I didn’t have to cope with the, the assumption or perception that I didn’t have that. And, um, and then a few weeks later I tried the magic mushrooms. And I, it’s funny, I actually don’t remember what happened at all in that trip. Uh, but I know that there was,
Speaker 1: (11:46)
Well, let’s, let’s back up for a second. How, um, roughly how much did you take?
Speaker 2: (11:52)
I did half a tab to start.
Speaker 1: (11:54)
Oh, that’s the lsd. The lsd.
Speaker 2: (11:56)
Oh yeah, the lsd, the mushrooms. I don’t know, I, it was funny. I was, um, a, a hippie driving through Utah in their van with their friends, gave them to me, um, . So, so
Speaker 1: (12:09)
Did you know anything about mushrooms before that? Or did you just, you took them from a hippie and just downed a whole bunch and you didn’t know how many
Speaker 2: (12:17)
I had spent years researching, um, both mushrooms and lsd. I was very nervous about ’em leading up until when I made the decision. Uh, I’m, I’m very much a, a, a research oriented person and will exhaust the available information on something most of the time before I move forward into it. Um, and so I tried, you know, I did that with both mushrooms and lsd, and I guess those two things were all the research I needed to, from that point forward to, uh, feel confident in exploring psychedelia and other areas of kind of the more mystical facet of life after that.
Speaker 1: (13:00)
So tell me a little bit more about your, about your mushroom trip, and then, and tell me about the trip itself, and then what happened after that. Like, what did you, what did you realize and how did, how did you, how did it change your life?
Speaker 2: (13:14)
Okay. So I would say that, um, in contrast to lsd, which is very cognition based, very intellectual, I think mechanically LSD is turning on, um, neural connectivity and mushrooms are turning them down. And so you get to the same place, but kind of from a different direction, if that makes any sense. And with the mushrooms, it was, um, around midnight that I took them. It was in dark, I had no music. Um, it was probably two grams, two to three grams. Um, and I, I wanna say I just ate them. And so the experience was deeply emotional. And again, um, the way I look at it is when you take psilocybin and it, and it, um, diminishes your mental activity, especially your egoic perceptual filters that have developed over a lifetime, um, the parts of you that have been, uh, suppressed by those filters for one reason or another, those parts are able to sort of bubble back up.
Speaker 2: (14:25)
And then it happens under a blissful context because you’ve got this sense of euphoria that the psilocybin creates by mimicking in a way, serotonin, if I’m getting it right. These are, this is how I remember the science. And so you’re able to view the parts of yourself that you unconsciously are the most afraid to express under a deeply loving and generally blissful and meaningful context. And that’s what I experienced. It was very much like a, a mother, uh, experience and reconnecting to life itself, um, and feeling an, a grand sense of empathy and appreciation and, um, really true love, love non-transactional love, which I think is an important distinction for all life, um, especially my relationships. Um, so that’s all I really remember of how it was. And then, you know, I came out and there was that, that glow, um, that I carried with me. And then ever since then, it, I just have that experience as a reference point to know where to go and how to be and kind of grow into.
Speaker 1: (15:44)
So what were you doing as far as work? Um, before, before you got into the lsd, before you got into the mushrooms, what was your, what was your job?
Speaker 2: (15:54)
Well, I was, uh, really, I was failing at work. I was getting into entry level positions and dropping out within a month almost every single time. I think I had gone through four different positions, um, in that year between the diagnosis and the LSD trip. But then within the month after the LSD trip, I had, uh, begun working as an intern and entrepreneur in residence at a EC firm. Um, uh, you know, and it just, it was so unbelievable how it unlocked my ability to move towards my potential and take these big risks for what felt like big risks and worked there. And I started a YouTube channel. I started devouring information on how to become a business owner.
Speaker 1: (16:46)
Wait back, let’s, um, hold back up. Um, what’s your YouTube channel? Maybe I didn’t even, I’m not even sure I knew about that. , let’s, let’s hear about that. Oh,
Speaker 2: (16:54)
I, it was, so originally the idea was I was going to go completely broke, which is what I was at the time, uh, and reach the point of financial independence where I could choose to retire if I wanted to within a year. So I’ve since deleted it. Uh, well, I’ve archived everything because it was kind of embarrassing . And, uh, the irony is, I, I did it, it worked within a year, I had moved to the Caribbean, um, and was working once a week as an extra in films and living out my fantasy of a retired life. Um, and it was funny because I’d given up on the whole project, I’d left the VC firm. I had abandoned the company I started, um, which was an augmented reality company, uh, because I realized within six months of that, that they were so out of, of sync with what felt authentic and joyous to me that it wasn’t right. And so then I went headlong into just, let’s just retire right now without the money and see what happens. And, um,
Speaker 1: (18:01)
So how can you, so how, tell me how you can retire without money though. I’m just, um, I’m, I’m cur curious about that one.
Speaker 2: (18:08)
Well, I don’t think you can. I, I think I, uh, , I w i I had a lot of luck. Um, I was able to sell enough stuff and get a credit card to survive in the Caribbean at a hostile or sleeping on the beach. My food budget was $30 a week. Um, and my entertainment was, uh, drawing and, uh, the occasional, the occasional joint that somebody would give me an exchange for having a lighter, um, on the beach. And so it was a, you know, you gotta be young and available to a, a pretty fortunate flow of, uh, people helping you out . Um, but I was able to make enough money acting to survive, um, but not in a way that was fulfilling. And I realized that pretty quickly. And so my retirement ended within about four months. Uh, and I came back to Utah .
Speaker 1: (19:13)
Okay. And then you got back to Utah. And then what, what did you do?
Speaker 2: (19:18)
So when I came back, it was, um, with this new sense of ambition and restlessness, I guess I kind of realized that my idea of retirement was something I had developed out of ignorance. And I actually did want to work and, um, apply myself in ways that were uncomfortable but valuable. And so I moved in with my mom. I had almost no money. I got a, another entry level position. I worked at it until I could get a position as a remote marketer for a company. Um, and I did that until I started Magic Mo, actually.
Speaker 1: (20:00)
Okay. Now that’s a good segue into magic. Mo you, you had this, I guess idea, um, maybe you love mushrooms. I’m guessing that it’s the case and I don’t think magic Mo is, um, is doing anything with psilocybin that I know of, cuz I know in Utah here, we, we really can’t do that legally. So tell me how you got into this and what it is exactly and how you built it, and a little bit more about that.
Speaker 2: (20:25)
Mm-hmm. , so we’re not doing anything with psilocybin yet. Um, there is a very clear path to that once the, um, legalization comes through. But when I, so I would describe the last 10 years of my life as the succession of reaching the point of whatever I had fantasized my life needed to be in order to feel happy and then be done searching. And I would reach that point and become disillusioned with it. Um, which was a huge blessing because it opened me up to something better. And then that would fall through as the thing. Um, and so this job with being a remote marketer, I thought that was the thing. I’d have remote work, I’d have the income I wanted. I was working with people I cared about in a company that was meaningful. And when it fell through, it was because I’m not meant to be a marketer.
Speaker 2: (21:21)
I don’t like it. I thought I did because I thought it would be easy, really. Um, and so it was actually pretty devastating when I and my employer both came to this conclusion. And it was difficult for me to hear him say, you, you need to do something that’s right for you. And I felt frustrated by that because it was such a mystery and it, it felt scary to, um, set out on my own in that way and not operate within an organization that somebody else had built, which also meant that they were taking on all the risks of trying something new. Um, so I was in a difficult period after leaving that job where I felt lost, but I also knew that I couldn’t depend on anything outside of my own intuition you could say. So I actually , I decided to fast and my idea was I wouldn’t eat until it came to me what the right thing was to do. Um, ,
Speaker 1: (22:28)
Was this a, um, what type of fast was it? Was it a water? Like you could drink water, I guess,
Speaker 2: (22:33)
Right? Only water. Only
Speaker 1: (22:34)
Water, yeah. So a water fast.
Speaker 2: (22:35)
Yeah. So I was, uh, really cashing in on something I had developed as a Mormon, which is that you do a 24-hour fast every month. So I kind of knew how to deal with it psychologically . Um, and on the fourth day, uh, I, it, it’s so funny too how obvious it, it was and is in retrospect, but it just occurred to me the only thing I’m interested in are mushrooms. I had been taking large doses of mushrooms at least once a month, um, for the last year and, um, and other psychedelics and had been having the most incredible experiences of insight and release and wonder and everything that comes with it. Um, and it had brought so much richness and freedom to my life. So, um, it occurred to me that mushrooms were it, and that I had only ever not considered it because I was afraid of what that meant I would have to do to be involved.
Speaker 2: (23:36)
And so, um, what I decided at that time was that I needed to go back to school and get into research with psychedelics. And so I was going to go and I had, I’ve only done three semesters of college, and so it was intimidating cause I was planning on going all the way to at least a master’s and getting a loan and working through that whole entire thing. But at the same time, I had digested enough inner fantasies about what life is supposed to be, that there wasn’t much left. And so it felt really easy to commit to something as intimidating or daunting as eight years of school because I didn’t feel like I would be distracted and I just needed something to do. So as I was preparing to go back to school, um, I was also heavily invested in kind of starting my own, uh, anecdotal, uh, research into psychedelics and how they could improve cognition and wellbeing and self-improvement.
Speaker 2: (24:45)
And so I was also super focused on, uh, neuronutrition a lot of different areas of psychology in the sense of improving one’s wellbeing, of course, um, and performance psychology especially, and flow state. Um, and so a big piece of that for me was food, because that was kind of the only resource I had access to at the time. Cause I didn’t have money for anything else and I was growing most of my own food. Um, and so I was very sensitive to how it felt to eat food and I was accumulating a lot of information of why it felt that way. And so I was able to develop this really helpful map of what food is to me now. Like as I’m eating something, what is it doing? Why is it doing that? How is that affecting my ability to, um, be intimate with life in a way that feels good and is sustainable?
Speaker 2: (25:44)
Um, and so the, the other side of that is this massive sense of dissatisfaction with what’s available in cheap and convenient food. And so this is where the company comes in and that it seemed to me that a solution to pay for school and to manage my own wellbeing would be to start making health foods that filled the potential I saw, which is that you could take things like snack bars and make them delivery mechanisms for potent performance and medicinal nutrition. And what I was experiencing at the time was that functional mushrooms are the holy grail of that because they have such a holistic effect on your body. They don’t cost you anything the way things like caffeine or other stimulants do. Um, and then they are also medicines in their own way. And so, um, that’s sort of the, uh, I think the word is apotheosis of the company and the philosophy behind it, which is that it can be easy to live well if we allow our laziness to inform our creativity, um, and to not compromise our values as we move forward with that. And so it started with snack bars and has since become what it is today, which is not much more . There’s some nut butters and just the regular mushroom powder blends. Uh, but then big plans for the future, which of course will hopefully include psilocybin.
Speaker 1: (27:16)
I’ve got this in front of me right here. Does that look familiar to you at all?
Speaker 2: (27:19)
Sure does. Have you been eating them?
Speaker 1: (27:23)
I have been eating them. And I know, um, you gave me, the caveat was this was kinda like one of your first products or first run or something, and you said that, yeah, it’s gonna taste very dry. I gotta tell you, it tastes much better than I thought it would because, um, you know, you kind of played it down. It’s definitely on the dry side, but, um, I’ve actually been using these, believe it or not, uh, hiking and things like that, and they’ve been working really well for me. So by eating these mushroom bars, uh, what should I, and I know you probably don’t have those available. I know you’ve probably, uh, you know, you’ve got other products that have replaced this maybe. But, um, what could I, what can I expect to happen to my health if I start eating these mushroom bars?
Speaker 2: (28:10)
Well, I would kind of put it into three categories. Um, oh, by the way, somebody told me if you pair those with apples, they’re delicious. And I, I tried to, oh, it’s true. So
Speaker 1: (28:21)
We got a whole bag of organic apples just yesterday. So I will, and you me, just kind, when you say pair, just kind of eat them together, is that what you’re saying?
Speaker 2: (28:30)
Just yeah, bite a each, it combines into sort of an apple cider kinda thing.
Speaker 1: (28:35)
Nice, nice, nice. Fantastic.
Speaker 2: (28:38)
So the first and most important thing to me is that you, well, actually what you don’t feel when you eat it, which is that you don’t feel digestive discomfort unless you’re the rare person that’s super sensitive to essential oils, which is why I’ve since changed it. And there’s very little essential oil in it. Um, but that has only happened I think once or twice anyone that’s ever eaten them. So you won’t feel heavy, you won’t feel digestive discomfort, you won’t feel bloating, you won’t feel tired, you won’t feel a lot of things that at least I never recognized I was feeling every time I ate until I started eating cleaner nutrition and suddenly food felt lighter. Um, which didn’t make sense to me at the time because if I’m adding something to my body, it should weigh it down because that’s just the physics of it.
Speaker 2: (29:29)
But if the food has a , I guess you could say chemical result, that’s buoyant, then you’re going to feel light and clear. And so the inverse of that is you’ll feel a, i, you know, at the beginning of IMAX movies where there’s that thing. Exactly. That’s what I feel. Um, every single cell is being given an active compound with which the cell will produce more energy. Literally, ATP production is increased by one of the mushrooms in the bar. And so there’s a sense of full body aliveness that the dial gets turned up on. And then, um, uh, cognitive clarity, I get a lot of people and myself included, that feel more creative and have just a, a more integrated sense of being with it. So that’s one part of it. Um, , I guess I said there’s three categories and I’m kind of mashing it all together.
Speaker 2: (30:31)
Uh, well, the other thing is you’ll feel satisfied. Um, hunger isn’t the lack of your stomach being full. Hunger is a signal that you are deficient in a nutrient that your body wants. And so to feel satisfied does not have to come after filling up your stomach. Um, so I notice that I can eat less than a full bar and I will feel satisfied and sometimes not finish it for another half hour or so, which is if I’m eating just normal, normal food off a plate, I’m ravenous looking. I grew up with seven siblings, and so if you didn’t eat fast, it was gone. Um,
Speaker 1: (31:17)
It’s funny that you said that because, um, it was the other day, I think it was up at out or something, and I had one of your bars in my, in my hip pack and I opened it up. I was kind of hungry and I, I ate half of it and I felt totally satisfied. So I put the other half back in the hip pack. It still might be there right now as a matter of fact, but, um, but it’s very shame that you said that because I I absolutely noticed that.
Speaker 2: (31:40)
Speaker 1: (31:41)
It must have given me, so other words, I got some kind of nutrition from it that, um, satisfied me and my cells and I felt like I just, I didn’t really have to have anymore. I was okay.
Speaker 2: (31:52)
Mm-hmm. , my intention with it originally was that you could replace your entire supplement regimen with one bar, and it’s not there yet, but, um, it does satisfy a lot of the nutritional needs that most people in the US are pretty chronically deficient in. Um, so it, I I love to hear that. It’s a, a huge validation, you know, to hear people say this. Um, and I’ll say the last thing that one could expect, um, and this is kind of my own theory with it, but, um, a, a huge idea that I wanted to push forward with these products is that everything in it is, um, a powerful anti-inflammatory agent. A lot of the ingredients are in the top 10 most powerful anti-inflammatory foods on the planet. Um, and this was incepted by the, I guess you could say the idea, I don’t know if it’s a fact or not, I believe it is that 80% of what ails US disease and illness wise comes from chronic inflammation.
Speaker 1: (33:10)
I’d say, well, there’s, there’s no question about that. And the two big, the two big ones, let’s face it. Um, heart disease and cancer, they both, they both come from chronic, they can come from chronic inflammation for sure. And, um, as also as a retired dentist, I don’t know if I told you that when we first met, but I’m a retired dentist. Mm-hmm. , um, chronic inflammation. I’ll tell you something, almost everybody has inflammation in their mouth because they’re just, it’s not being treated properly. But that’s something that we’ve see and that, and that goes into, that goes into your system. It’s, you know, everything’s connected. You know, you know that tennis, and I don’t have to tell you that everything’s connected , and when you’ve got chronic inflammation in your mouth, whether it’s in your gums or wherever, it’s, it’s traveling through your bloodstream and it’s, it’s going other places.
Speaker 2: (33:55)
Interesting. Yeah. Well, the, the, the, where this really plays into my theory is that, um, so a, a big piece of this all kind of came together, um, those three years ago when I started the company, I had done a, a very high dose psilocybin trip and had this excruciating headache and nausea for the next several hours after it ended. Is
Speaker 1: (34:23)
This, is this the same? So just, oh, sorry. But is this the same trip your, your original psilocybin trip? Or is this a, a, a trip after that?
Speaker 2: (34:32)
This was after, so this was a week or so after my four day fast.
Speaker 1: (34:37)
Tell me about, so tell me about that psilocybin trip, if you don’t mind.
Speaker 2: (34:41)
. So I, I wanted to test a bunch of ideas I had about how to intensify the trip, and they all worked . So the first one was to take eight grams of mushrooms, which was just all I had. Um,
Speaker 1: (34:59)
Well, I’ll in itself, that’ll work. You don’t have to do it. You just take it. You don’t have to do anything else. Yeah,
Speaker 2: (35:05)
I, I took every food I knew of that would have, um, a positive impact on cognition. And then when I felt the, uh, um, the peak coming on, I got in an ice bath and . Um, and there were a few other things I did, uh, that were insignificant because when I sat down into the ice bath, it was as if my consciousness flipped inside out. And I was seeing myself from the perspective of my shower head and my shower head from the perspective of me and also everything from the perspective of everything. It was as if I had been popped into a hyper spatial sense of awareness. And there was also, uh, oh, one of my arms just went up into a, a mora and I felt like I was emanating this like, shape of a, a Buddha figure. And it was very multicolored. And then I also at the same time was looking at it, it, the only way I know how to describe it is that I was also perceiving all of this from a higher dimension, like a fourth dimension of awareness.
Speaker 2: (36:24)
And I could tell that because there was a gap between me and everything, and it was like this chasm of transparency and I could see the edges of all of reality where edges couldn’t and shouldn’t be, nor could they be seen. But there I was seeing them. And the, at the, the, the last thing was there was this infinite sense of bliss that I could turn the dial up and down on using my voice and I could make my voice go into possibly high falsettos to get there, . And so that was , that was it for the next few hours. And I don’t remember much of what happened after that until the, the, uh, the crash I guess, that I had to pay for it all with after.
Speaker 1: (37:14)
That’s a great story. And, and, um, if I could just share something with you that happened to me just the other day, I mean, cuz it’s funny when you said you just tried to take anything possible or tried to eat anything possible that would enhance the experience. Um, so the other day I just did my regular old microdose, which was, uh, 0.25 gram of, of course dried mushroom 0.25, which is small, it’s a micro dose. But at the same time, I took a little, and it’s, this is not, um, calculator mathematical, I don’t even know how much it was, but I took, let’s just say I took a swig, I took a swig from a little bottle of C B D that I have, and then at the, I also ate two, um, lion’s, main mushroom capsules, so probably 250 milligrams each, so probably 500 milligrams of that.
Speaker 1: (38:05)
And between the three things now I’ve, I’ve been microdosing for a year and a half, and with 0.25 grams, I generally can hardly feel anything at all. But with everything I took together, and I’d like you to explain this maybe if you know the answer. With everything I took together, I felt this microdose as very strong. Now I can’t say it was like a true psychedelic trip, but like the entire day I felt this level of energy and this aura around me that was just like magical. And I’ve never felt that with a microdose like that before. But having combined it with my stack of C, b, D and of lions, man, something happened there.
Speaker 2: (38:49)
Yeah, I, you know, I’m, I’m glad you bring this up because it also ties into what I was meaning to loop back, which is this third thing I say you can expect at the bar. So my, uh, oh
Speaker 1: (39:02)
Wait, maybe wait a minute. Maybe, maybe was the bar, is it possible that I, maybe this ties into everything this has sent me on a tremendous trip from micro
Speaker 2: (39:13)
Well, so to tie all of this together, including what you were saying, um, the bar is designed kind of on the side, wink, wink to enhance a psychedelic trip. Uh, one because everything in it is geared to be, uh, is neuronutrition or neuro supportive? It actually, I feel like I’m on a microdose when I eat a bar most of the time. Um, and it, uh, so with the i, the anti-inflammatory nature of it, this is my theory that I’ve been kind of alluding to. I think that when you are in a psychedelic expanded state of awareness and that awareness is expanded in its perception of your own experience of your body, um, which I I would say projects that experience to form this your psychological state in many ways. And so if you don’t have inflammation kind of sounding the alarm and so much of us have chronic inflammation that we’ve just grown accustomed to, if that dies down, um, the way I, I guess the way I would put this is that the place that the psychedelic is trying to take you to, it’s a much smoother road to get there.
Speaker 2: (40:38)
And so it’s much easier to get there and more quickly and you’re able to perceive it with so much more clarity and not have to deal with the, um, psychological output from the inflammation. And again, this is all my, uh, theory about what’s going on. And so, um, I think that that’s what happens. And I’ve gotten a lot of, if not everyone I’ve ever asked that tried the bar with any psychedelic, even cannabis had a much smoother and cleaner experience. And I think if you add C B D, um, your cannabinoid system, especially if it’s full spectrum C B D is so satisfied that you’re able to, um, without having to work for it drop into a parasympathetic state. Um, and then all of just the factors of relaxation that come with C B D. And so you have this kind of dual effect of the C B D relaxing your sense of tension on a micro level, and then you have the psilocybin relaxing your sense of suppression on a, a site neurological and psychological level.
Speaker 2: (41:54)
And so you’re kind of opening up the stops on both ends. Um, and and I think that, and I have experienced this in moments that our natural state, if a person is able to sort of rest in the default of a higher level of what’s possible with our bodies as they’ve, um, evolved to be, it would likely feel a lot like a mushroom trip. Um, with just that expanded sense of awareness and body sensitivity and embodiment and everything that comes with it. Um, cuz I’ve had moments meditating or just being an incredible experience where the sense of wholeness alone brought me into what you could say as an altered state, but maybe is just a more true state. And that to me is the big benefit of psychedelics, is they give us these reference points and we know that it’s something that’s possible. And so we begin to sort of trend towards that naturally.
Speaker 1: (42:56)
That’s incredibly interesting. Tenon, I mean really, um, I’ll, I’ll tell you what I’d like to do, if it’s okay with you, I I like to really get a lot deeper into, um, the, you know, the non psychedelic mushrooms and talk to you about those as far as, um, inflamma inflammation and cognitive, uh, repair or enhancement or whatever. And, um, there’s so many more questions I want to ask you about mushrooms, whether they’re psychedelic or non psychedelic, and also about your, your business and some other things that, that just came to my mind while I’m talking to you. Um, can we, would you be willing to come back for like a, like a, like a part two?
Speaker 2: (43:34)
Yeah, I would absolutely love that. That would be a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: (43:38)
I think, I mean, I think we could just keep this conversation going. You’re, you’re re I mean, I knew when I met you the other day, uh, super interesting guy and I knew you’d be able to just run with this and, and, um, but before we, before we go for today, could you please let our viewers or listeners know how they can get in touch with your, you or your company or if they wanna order some of these? I’ll tell you, it’s funny, I didn’t even realize the other day when I told you I did the 0.25 microdose and, and the other things I did along with it sent me just sailing, if that’s like the right word. Um, yeah, I didn’t realize that maybe the bar could have played. Now I don’t think I had part of your bar in the morning, but it’s very possible the day before I had, because I think I hiked the day before and I probably had part of, part of a bar the day before, which probably is still in my system. So I didn’t even think about that aspect of it. But that’s, I, I’d hate to see, or actually I love this, what would happen if I took a little bit of a larger dose and also introduced these same things that I had for the microdose. We gotta talk about this stuff more how to, but how to in the meantime, in the meantime, how do people find you, your website, your products, all of that stuff?
Speaker 2: (44:49)
Okay, yeah. Um, the website is magic mou.com. That’s magic m a GIC mgu. Then I have an Instagram magic dot mou, Facebook magic mou. You can email me tenon at Magic mou. Um, and right now the only physical location you can find me at is the, uh, Brighton Flea market of Big Cottonwood Canyon, which is one of the most beautiful places in Utah. So
Speaker 1: (45:21)
There’s, there’s more than, I’m really glad you brought that up cause I wasn’t, I I wasn’t even gonna talk about the flea market, but that’s where I met you about two. It’s, it’s every Sunday I think, right? Every Sunday. And um, so those of you that are either local to lake or can get to Salt Lake on, on vacation or you’re not that far, you could drive in Tenon was absolutely right. Um, the Cottonwood Canyons are perhaps some of the most beautiful canyons or beautiful areas, uh, geographically, geologically whatever, uh, that I’ve ever seen. And, and we’re, so we’re, we’re privy to have them right here. People travel from all over the world to see these canyons. Big Cottonwood canyon and little Cottonwood canyon. And so this flea market takes place every Sunday, basically all day long. I think, um, in Big Cottonwood Canyon, it’s a very top and it’s, it’s brightened ski resort and they kind of do like a little flea market in the parking lot. And that’s exactly where I met, where I met Tennison. So you say that’s the only place somebody could actually physically meet up with you right now?
Speaker 2: (46:22)
Right now, yeah. It’s a funny story and maybe we’ll get into it next time. Uh, I was in stores briefly at the beginning of this year and then had to pull everything back cause I needed to redo it. Um, and so within, I anticipate the next two to three months will start going into local stores and you know, then as the progression goes into regional and so on, um, I’ve, I’ve already spoken with a lot of the, the grocery stores around that people know about. So it’s only a matter of time.
Speaker 1: (47:01)
Well what I you, um, the, the, the product you had on your little table there that really caught my eye was the, um, what do you call it, the round little, um, is it like a truffled? What what is that exactly?
Speaker 2: (47:10)
Well, I’ve been calling them mou power balls, power
Speaker 1: (47:14)
Speaker 2: (47:14)
Power balls, just the new, the new formulation of the bar. But right now I’ve gotta make them by hand and so they’re balls .
Speaker 1: (47:20)
Well, if you don’t mind me saying this, um, they, I, I bought one, only one. I should have bought more. They was, it was delicious. I, I, I ate half of it and immediately found, found my wife and had her eat the other half cause it was delicious then. So that was so good. I bought, um, I had like got a drink from you. What was that? Some kind of um, some kind of coffee with mushrooms, something in it. What was that exactly?
Speaker 2: (47:43)
Yeah, so I’ve, I’ve been making my own cold brew and uh, I’ve got these mushroom shots, which is just a powder blend. You only need about a tape or a teaspoon of it to put add to the coffee. Um, which it balances out all the negative side effects and enhances all the positive effects of coffee. So it’s kind of the perfect marriage. I compare it to avocados and toast. They need to be together.
Speaker 1: (48:08)
, , . It was really good. And then I like that so much and I like you, honestly, I liked you. I said, what the heck, I following a whole box of these .
Speaker 1: (48:19)
Anyway, that’s what I want. I wanted to have a little, have you as a guest because I I love talking to you. You’re like the real deal. Um, I I I I wanna mention you and your company cuz I think, I think your future with this thing could be fantastic. I’m super interested in this stuff, obviously. So I’m glad we got together. I’m glad we met at Brighton and I’m glad we’re able to do this even though you’re probably right now little, literally I could probably look at my front door and scream and you can and wave. Yeah.
Speaker 2: (48:46)
Yeah. How the rest of it
Speaker 1: (48:48)
. So let’s do this, let’s get you back. We’ll I, I’ve got so many more things I want to ask you and maybe next time we can even do live to figure out how to set up the camera shots, but maybe we could do it live in, um, in my living room or somewhere that might, that might work too. We’ll, we’ll, however we do it, we’ll do it.
Speaker 2: (49:03)
Sure, yeah. Sounds great.
Speaker 1: (49:06)
So thanks, thanks so much Tanon. I really appreciate you taking your time. Um, and we’ll, you and I will talk offline and we’ll, we’ll get another date for part two of this
Speaker 2: (49:15)
Thing. Okay. Awesome. Thank you David. I so appreciate it. It’s been a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: (49:20)
Hey, it’s Dr. Dave coming back to you after the show. I really appreciate you being here. And if you could just do me one little favor before you go, it’ll take you about 30 seconds of your time. Go onto your podcast platform and give us a rating and a review. Um, it takes just a little bit of your time and it really, really will help the show immensely. I’m trying to get the word out to people all over the world because so many people are struggling and they need help and this is the way they’re gonna find out about us. So take a little bit of your time, do it for us. I really appreciate you. Thanks so much.